After reading this novel, what is one thing that you think is "true"? What is one thing that you think is false? What is a question that you still have? Be specific.
Sunday, November 15, 2015
The Truth
The idea of "truth" w/ quotes--i.e. truth is something that can't be known or my truth is different than your truth--is a quintessential aspect of po-mo literature. I think a key moment when this is explored is in the last scene between Liz and McCandless in the penultimate chapter. Revisit it to get a sense of what the "truth" of this entire novel is. Liz, in fact, sneeringly refers to "your grand words about the truth" to McCandless on p. 240.
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I think this is a pretty bleak novel (if anyone liked it, I highly recommend JR--it's also dark, but funnier). One thing that I think is "true" in this novel is that everyone is out for themselves even if that means that they'll screw over someone else. The CIA doesn't care whose lives they mess up to create their "scenarios," Paul hits on Edie at the end of the book, McCandless peddles his grand theories for whoever will listen, I think, for some kind of self-aggrandizement (he's like the worst parody of a professor, someone who talks all the time and never listens). The only pure character in the book, I think, is Liz. She has compassion for others, even shows compassion for Paul in the end when he's up for bribery charges. But then she dies, senselessly, a freak accident, which seems to be a strange sort of commentary on life. Or maybe not a commentary at all. What do you all think?
ReplyDeleteI think it's false, and I think Gaddis thinks it's false, that any good can come out of US military involvement (and I would include CIA intrigue in this) in developing countries.
I have trouble keeping all of McCandless' stories straight, like, I imagine, the rest of you. I feel skeptical that the police would think that Liz was killed by an intruder. I think it would be obvious that it was an accident.
I wouldn't even be able to tell you what I think is true and what I think is lies. I feel like the entire book was a bunch of fluff, making it SO hard to grasp who was saying what. The main things I grasped was that maybe Paul really had something going with Rev. Ude, Billy is probably one of the sanest characters, Liz is a poor puppy lol that sometimes defends herself and her husband about having these connections going, and Mr.McCandless -- I don't know even know. I can't believe Edie and Paul leave together at the end of the book, I honestly think that was the best part of the entire book. I actually started laughing, not a comical laugh but you know when you're extremely heated and mad so you start laughing and sound a bit crazy... yeah that one.
DeleteWhen speaking on the truth, your truth and someone else's can be referred too as two completely different things. In this novel we learn that some of the things we believed were true actually weren't. An essential example of this was when Liz exclaims that line "your grand words about the truth". I guess what she means by this is that McCandless was so certain on what he believed that he was blinded from the actual truth. He wasn't aware of what was going on right in front of him, like one of his own men was going against him from the start. The men he was riding with weren't as loyal as they seemed. The idea of trust was also important because in previous pages; we see that because Lester was a friend they instilled trust into him when they shouldn't have. Just because he was a friend, didn't mean they were able to believe and rely on everything he said. Which followed through later in the text. Not everyone's truth is the same.
ReplyDeleteIn this book, I feel that the only thing that is true is in this book is that Liz actually cares about Paul despite the way he treats her. I feel that Liz care about him because he is all she has and she doesn't know what she would do without him. I think that Liz is torn between McCandless and Paul, because despite the fact that she had the affair with him, she still wants to be with Paul. I think that the whole thing with Reverend Ude is false, because Paul keeps on Obsessing over this client who is never even seen in the book. All we know about him is what Paul says about him. I think that Ude is a scammer and he is trying to steal money from regular people in order to further achieve his goals. Paul states many times that Ude will lead a crusade in order to prevent the liberals from taking over the US. I believe that Ude is lying because he sounds too good to be true and he is using this as an excuse to get support and further his own agenda. One question I have is why Liz isn't looking into Reverend Ude, if she claims that she doesn't trust him. Usually if someone is untrustworthy, the other person would look at their past to see what secrets they may be hiding.
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot going on in the story. With so many different point of views, the readers become confused. One truth I know is that Paul used Liz more than he loved her. something false, I believe Paul is not innocent, Liz thinks he is but i believe he is guilty for whatever he is being prosecuted for. Paul character showed us that he was a liar, user, and untrustworthy. A question that I have is... is Liz happy with Mc Candles?
ReplyDeleteIn Carpenter's Gothic, I thing that may be true throughout the whole novel is the fact that Paul is a genuinely bad person and yet Liz still cares about him anyway. Regardless of the fact that Paul was abusive to her, he was all that Liz had in a way, even after the affair with McCandless. The one thing I believe that may be false is the whole issue with Reverend Ude since on page 240, it says on the top that Paul was given "ten thousand dollars to pay Senator Teakell because Paul said he had to pay a bribe for his television station" but yet there is no mention about what exactly Ude planned to do with the money or any evidence that he wanted to take control. I believe that Ude only wanted more money for his own personal gain.
ReplyDeleteafter reading this novel I have come to see that everyone is living a fake life, and they are not who they say to be. One truth about this novel is that yes Liz was being mistreated and yes Paul was a money hungry procrastinator. But everyone has there own little story to why they live the lives that they did. What I think is true is that yes Liz's father died and the trusty took over the father company and money that the kid where suppose to get, but by doing this I think it reflected their out comes and as people in both a negative and positive way. If they had gotten the money handed to them after the father died, I feel they would have been worse off then they already are. Each and everyone on of the characters in this novel are looking for something and trying to be something that they are not at the same time. Paul thinks that he has so much control over Ude, but the took is that Ude has full control over him and he is taking what he wants and getting what he need. I think and know that the whole operation that Ude is running is a whole money scam, and he is not looking to help anyone but himself in the long run. Paul means nothing to him.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I believe is true is how Liz expresses her feelings about McCandless's views on Paul. He calls Paul a killer and all hell brakes loose. Liz expresses herself and stands up for her husband in a way I don't remember seeing before. You can see her love for him through this part in the novel. In this section we even get Paul's story about losing his hand and being handicapped. (pg 239)
ReplyDeleteSomething that I do not believe is true in this novel is when McCandeless senses something wrong and he expresses it to Liz in these couple of pages about the CIA plans and the plane. I feel like he is just trying to argue with Liz. And sound informative.
What is one thing that you think is true?
ReplyDelete1) One thing after reading this book that I believe is true is that Grimes and Teakell would make Paul testify and say that the bribes were arranged and only one person knew about them which is why he shot himself.
What is one thing that you think is false?
1) I believe that the theory of Ude being set up with the mission tract is false.
One question I still have is why is Paul getting arrested for bribery?
After reading this novel, I think one thing that’s “true” is Paul and Liz relationship. Throughout the novel they relationship don’t seems to change, they have this kind of love hate relationship. I think they do love each other but don’t show it. There’s no romance just blaming each other for putting them in debt. One thing I think is false in this novel is who Mister McCandless portray his self to be....
ReplyDeleteIn this novel there are many things being told that is true but also there are many lies. One thing that I feel is true in the novel is that each character looks for the best interest of themselves instead of everyone else. For example the actions Paul does affects Liz but its as if he does not care..
ReplyDeleteI think its true what McCandless said about the power struggle, that they would make it seem like Paul has some form of control so he can take the fall. But Paul also has a way of always making it seem like its everyone else thats messing up his plans and its never his fault. So when Paul makes his actions seem as if its just coincidental he’s the one taking the blame i dont think thats true
ReplyDeleteIn Carpenter's Gothic, I thing that may be true throughout the whole novel is the fact that Paul is a genuinely bad person and yet Liz still cares about him anyway. Regardless of the fact that Paul was abusive to her, he was all that Liz had in a way, even after the affair with McCandless. The one thing I believe that may be false is the whole issue with Reverend Ude since on page 240, it says on the top that Paul was given "ten thousand dollars to pay Senator Teakell because Paul said he had to pay a bribe for his television station" but yet there is no mention about what exactly Ude planned to do with the money or any evidence that he wanted to take control. I believe that Ude only wanted more money for his own personal gain.
ReplyDelete