The significance of the orange.

http://www.catholictradition.org/Saints/signs4.htm
  ORANGE: The orange tree is regarded as a symbol of purity, chastity, and generosity. Thus it is occasionally depicted in paintings of the Virgin Mary. The orange tree was sometimes used instead of the apple tree or the fig tree in scenes showing the fall of man. When it is seen in representations of Paradise, it alludes to the fall of man and his redemption. Its white flower is also used to suggest purity, and for this reason orange blossoms are the traditional adornment of brides.

Jeanette's mother constantly forced Jeanette to eat oranges. Throughout the story, Jeanette peels away the layers of the orange meticulously. I always thought this was a foreshadow of Jeanette's self; how there was so much more beneath Jeanette's exterior self. Learning the symbolic meaning behind the orange in Christianity, it entails more. Jeanette's mother wanted to pursue the idea of Jeanette being pure and innocent.

Deuteronomy
The last book of the law

Its about history, the author is speaking to us about how history can changes people point of views. The story can change within time and people have different ways of telling they own story.she states that people like to separate storytelling which is not fact from history which is fact.. knowing what to believe form your point  of view that's what gives us  our  identity. The author is telling us how Jeanette life is changing from her past history .

OANOF

I think that the narrator in this chapter is speaking directly to us. In this chapter he explains how history is so much more believed in than any other story. He explains that history can be changed and still people would believe it. The dead cannot say what really happened and people can be eliminated, documents can be eliminated...

[27] "Deuteronomy"?

Deuteronomy in this novel is the chapter that really stands out from the rest. It is more like an essay and the argument is shown in the first sentence of the chapter where it states: "Time is a great deadener. People forget, get bored, grow old, go away." [93] I felt like this was basically the turning point of the book, because preceding to the the next few chapters to the end, its what happens to Jeanette. She seemed to forget, what was really important to her when she was small, the church, her foster mom, she got bored with the life she was living, being a church helper, or being really devoted to the church, and she went away, when she gave up the church and moved out. The author is trying to show the change in Jeanette's life, from the previous chapter, "Numbers where we still see her as a kid, to the Chapter after "Joshua," where the we can picture Jeanette as more of an adult.

Deuteronomy Chapter Question

           This chapter of the novel kind of confused me. I did not get what Jeanette was trying to infer towards the bottom of page 95. She states "And so when someone tells me what they heard or saw, I believe them, and I believe their friend who also saw,but not in the same way". I understood that she was implying that she will view the points of others but will not compare and view those points in similar ways. The part that I did not understand was where she states "Here is some advice. If you want to keep your own teeth, make your own sandwiches . . . .". In my point of view I took it as that she is saying if you want to believe something happened see it for yourself. You can not depend on what others will tell you. I did not get why she would first say she would believe it but then say make something on your own. In my perspective I take this as that something can not be proven true until you witness it yourself. My question is what is really being meant by this part of the chapter?

Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit

In all, I enjoyed reading this novel and I truly admired the character that Jeanette was in the story. She goes from someone who was basically brainwashed since her mother made her believe that her sexuality was a sin in their religion and she begins to hold her own in life. She works various jobs and is shown to be a character to admire since she never gives in because she didn't fit her mothers version of what is good in the religion she followed and Jeannete never allowed that religion to negatively affect her in the future. She can be looked at as a hero in a way because she is someone that never gives up regardless of her circumstances.

"Oranges are Not the Only Fruit"

I haven't finished it yet, I am on my way! There this whole part where Jeannette was hallucinating seeing demons of different color including orange... I didn't quite get that. Was she inventing those things as a way to cope with what was happening to her or did they drug her? I mean they mention that they offered her a beverage when the pastor was home telling what the mother should do so she can repent herself. This novel definitely has a different style or approach comparatively to Gaddis' novel. Jeanette missed the occasion to see her biological mother. It's only by reading more pages that we can see her disappointment when she found the adoption papers. At first I thought Jeanette didn't really care by her way of making humor only saying she would not play card since looking for the cards made her found the papers. I was expecting a direct confrontation with her adoptive mother but there wasn't at that moment. Winterson cut the pieces of the story and reveled later on the intensity of her discomfort knowing that she has been adopted and it starts to draw our curiosity to know how it happened if her mother is still alive and wants her back.  

Finishing Oranges are Not the Only Fruit

Finally a not so sad ending to a story we read. This story was a reliving one, not dark and mysterious at all. I love how Winterson incorporated fairytales into her story, but her story has a happy ending. How she was able to tell her "coming out" story and add fiction elements is incredible. I loved how she was able to deny repenting and be herself. I also enjoyed reading the description of the devil when she was locked in the room with no food for thirty six hours. During this confinement she hallucinated and thought about the devil, and claims the devil talked to her. I feel like this scene shows how brain washed she is about this harsh religion. It shows what control it has on her. She even breaks into fevers with nightmares about the devil. Jeanette doesn't want to do anything that will upset God, she still loves him but can't help but be herself.

You also get a sense of how strong Jeanette is in the story. She ends up moving out because her mom does not agree with Jeanette's sexuality and claims it's the devils work. She finds her own job, various ones. From an ice cream truck driver, funeral parlor and then a job at a mental hospital. She holds up on her own. Jeanette is a hero in my eyes and I really enjoyed reading this novel.

"Deuteronomy"?

"Deuteronomy" is the only chapter w/ a subtitle ("The Last Book of the Law"). Why is that? It's also the only chapter where there is no story/plot. It's at the center of the novel and seems to be more of an essay than a story. Essays generally have a thesis, they have an argument. What is the argument that is being made in this chapter? (Or arguments, more likely.) How does this chapter act as a transition between the first half and second half of the novel? What questions do you have about this chapter?

Orange is not the only fruit

when starting this book, we are introduced by Jeannette to her life. She describes her family, her mother, for example, a woman who is focused on religion. She believes in the bible more than anything. Makes her daughter answer questions regarding things in the bible so that in church when the pastor would ask these questions she can get it right. This is very amusing to Jeanette because she doesn't understand why its so important.

The one thing that interested me was the fairy tale about how the prince wanted a perfect flawless girl. Jeanette is obviously telling the story (Oranges...) and we know that the author Jeanette is the girl Jeanette in the book, so it was interesting to me to why Jeanette would bring this fairy tale in. To make the story short, the prince found a girl who was perfect, but she said she was not perfect but flawless. 

To me this doesn't make sense. How can one be flawless and not perfect. Flawless means that a person has no bad things in them, so the clearer definition of perfect no ? It kinda of got me wondering and i came up to a conclusion that the church that Jeannette and her mother are associated with, to me, feel like they want perfection, and i felt that Jeanette brought this story up to show that there is no such thing as perfect  

[26] Orange is Not the Only Fruit: Ending Response

This story seems really relate able to life. Its not the first time seeing how people are thought of to be a sham when it comes to church. This story, church is like the place where everyone has to act the same. Also if anyone was to act different in a way, then you were automatically an outcast, and possessed with some sort of evil. Also, just like in the story, the priest is looked at like a god. Now I'm not a Christian, and don't really know anything about Jesus or anything, but I did see the 10 commandments, and see a similarity to the movie and this book. I like how they used the representation of the orange in the story, when they described it as some find it as sweet, and others find it as sour. I feel like they use orange, and in the ending, pineapple as well because of the fact the way they described the fruit. People that find the orange sweet, are the people that are angels, and the ones that don't are the devils. It may seem very stupid, and it is, but so is the way people follow religion in this book, and in life.

Final thoughts

              I know we're already over Carpenter's Gothic but I just realized I never got to post my final thoughts on it. First and foremost, I just wanted to say for the first 'Gothic' themed novel I've read, this has been a great start. I liked how dark, and subtle the scenes were kind of gravitating those emotions of each of the characters towards the audience. I really did feel for some of the characters in this novel, one in particular was Liz. It seemed as though she settled throughout her life when it came to her marriage, her household; just about everything. She was never entirely fulfilled and that honestly broke my heart to see someone like that. I think it's rather ironic how relatable Liz was as a person. We work and try so hard to maintain a life that we should be proud of and somehow there are people that just settle for a life that they shouldn't obtain.
               There was one scene that put my thoughts on Liz into perspective and that's the scene where she breaks everything down for us. She exclaims, "..it never been mine, it has never been like coming home. Because we've never had one".(PG 244) I feel like this was the scene where she finally admitted how hopeless she felt. She kept it all inside of her as much as she could until finally she breaks. I guess at a point, we all reach that limit where we just crack. We can't keep things bottled inside of us all our lives. We saw her vulnerability.
       

Oranges are not the only fruit finale

After finishing the book Oranges are not the Only fruit by Jeanette Winterson, I felt that the ending of the book was a very happy one. At the end of the book, Jeanette leaves her mother after Elsie dies, because her mother and the people at church disliked her for being a lesbian. After she leaves, Jeanette eventually meets her mother a couple of years later in Liverpool England. Upon meeting Jeanette in Liverpool, Jeanette's mother asks her how her life has been and if she is happy. Jeanette states that she misses her family and wants to start over, in which they reconcile and become closer. I was a little surprised at the ending because I thought that after Jeanette left, she would never see her mother again. I also noticed that Jeanette's mother had changed significantly, since she was now working at an electronics music store and wasn't in touch with the other people from the church. I felt that the mother changed a lot at the end of the book, because she became more accepting of her daughter's life and allowed her to live it the way she wanted to. She still was very religious, but she didn't want it to cause a rift between her and her daughter's relationship. A big question I still have about the novel is why the father didn't play a huge role, he was rarely mentioned and it made me wonder how close Jeanette was to her father. I was surprised that the ending was a happy one, since the previous book we read in the class did not have a happy ending.

Oranges are not the only fruit

As a read this novel and I get to the parts that have the fairy tails in them I find myself questioning what fairy tail it is....starting on page 61, we are introduced to a fairy tail about a "perfect" women and a prince that is looking for a wife with his goose sidekick. When the advisor is sent out to find the perfect wife for this prince he comes across this women who is said to be perfect by the people that live around her. when the advisor goes to great her she says to come back later when she is done with her deadline so sewing. She finally meets with the prince she explains to him that there is no such thing as "perfect" and everyone has flaws. he chops off the gooses head, which I don't understand why. He meets with some man in the forest and I guess he tells the prince to go evil so that the book he wrote will never be wrong. The prince chops of the "perfect" woman's head and then flees up a tree. Walking around he finds a man with oranges. clearly to this author, oranges mean a lot to her that she is bring it up in the fairy tales. What is this fairy tail? Has the author made it up?

Oranges are not the only fruit

From the opening of the chapter Levitacus, I believe the mother is being very hypocritical in various aspects. First she judges everyone and anything that happens or crosses her path. For example she calls the neighbors heathens and fornicators. I truly do not believe she knows whether the neighbors are married or not, so she mainly just assumes that they are fornicators. And just because they do not attend her church and believe the same beliefs that she does, does not mean they are heathens. And when the "Next doors" are supposedly having sex, it drives the mother off the wall, to the extent where she begins to retaliate which I don't believe is very "Godly" like either. She starts making noise even louder by telling everyone to sing the hymns as she plays the piano. I don't believe what she did would result in any resolution of the situation, yet the mother then seems satisfied. As though she has fulfilled her purpose.

Oranges are not the only fruit

Jeanette's mother frequently told Jeanette religious stories including that of her ownconversion. Jeanette's mother converted one night when she walked into the tent holding Pastor Spratt's Glory Crusade. Upon her conversion, the pastor gave her potted plant, a technique he learned as an advertising businessman.

The narrative then switches to a story about a beautiful princess who is so sensitive that the death of a moth could distress her for weeks. No one in the kingdom knows how to relieve her pain. One day, the princess finds an old hunchbacked woman in the forest. The hunchback asks the princess to take over her responsibilities that include milking goats, educating people, and composing songs for their festivals. The princess agrees, the old hunchback dies, and the princess never thinks of her worries again.

Jeanette then switches back to her life and describes more about her adoption.
I think Jeanette includes these these little fantasy excerpts as a way of somewhat living out what she really wants to happen or do. Her mother pushes and shoves religion down her throat and although I believe Jeanette loves God and has love for her religion, I don't think she is as fixated about it as her mother is and wishes she didn't have to think about it all the time. Therefore she makes up these fairytales. In this particular fairytale she imagines the woman giving her her own responsibilities so she doesn't have to think about her own, which eventually she doesn't at all. I believe this is Jeanettes way of feeling that she does not want to think about religion, "her responsibility" all the time.

Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit

"Why do fairy tales appear in this novel?"

I'm not sure as to why, it could be an escape from everything going around the character. However, aren't some fairy tales not happy ones? I know in Albania there is this myth or folk tale they tell children in order to keep them in line with their faith. It is said that in order to keep the Shtriga (an ugly witch like woman) away is by having strong belief in God. It kind of reminds me of something the main character's mother would say to her in order to keep her in believing in God.

RE: Starting Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit

As of right now, I only read up until page 53 (Leviticus) so I'm limited with some questions..

Some questions I have:

• Why are the chapters all named after the first eight books of the Christian Old Testament?
• I think the chapters are all named after the first eight books of the Christian Old Testament because it emphasizes how religious, strict, and old fashioned Jeanette's mother is and how Jeanette's life revolves around the Bible. 
• How does Winterson use humor and/or irony in her novel?
• Page 3: when Jeanette lists the friends and enemies; she declares herself as a friend ... "at first". 
• Page 8: Pastor Spratt; he was once an advertising manager and claims to know "about bait" and how "there is nothing wrong with bait". 
• Page 16-17: We learn that Jeanette went to the bathroom with her father and even slept with her parents in bed from the age of 7 until 10 years old. 
• In general, how Jeanette is constantly alone/neglected by her parents, specifically her mother who is this holy going Church woman??
• Page 27: "I tried to build an igloo out of the orange peel but it kept falling down and even when I stood up I didn't have an eskimo to put it in" - symbolic of Jeanette.
• Page 30: "All things fall and are built again And those that build them again are gay". 
• Page 36: Jeanette's mother is going through her past; how she got the nickname Jesus Belle; how she saved a picture of her ex boyfriend's (Eddy) sister holding a cat (maybe she once had feelings for women as well or still does but chooses to ignore it). 
• What foreshadowing do we have in these early chapters that this will be a coming-out novel? 
• Some of the examples I referenced in the previous question. 
• What is Jeanette's mother like?
• Jeanette's mother is very old-fashioned, strict, and religious. She's also neglectful as a mother to Jeanette.
• What is this church community like? 
• I think the women of the Church community are easily persuaded by men that preach. Also, it's more of an excuse to meet with one another and gossip, not strengthening their relationship with God. (I could be wrong though).
• Why do fairy tales appear in this novel? (like the Leviticus ch. (61-67))
• I didn't get up to this chapter just yet so I'm gonna presume they relate in some way to Jeanette and the challenges she faced. 

What questions do you have?

• Why did Jeanette's mother have a picture of Eddy's sister still? Is my accusation correct? 

Oranges Are Not the only Fruit

The novel oranges Are Not the only Fruit is much more different form our last novel we’ve read “Carpenter's Gothic”. This book is based on the author Jeanette Winterson life; she also named one of the characters Jeanette. This book stands out from many other novels because the chapters are all named after the first eight books of the Christian Old Testament. I believe the author named the chapters after the eight books of the Christian Old Testament because it represents different stages of her life journey. Jeanette was a young girl that lives with her parents in England, I believe she was adopted. Jeanette mother seems more Christian than any of them. She teaches young Jeanette how to read the bible. Her mom was big on education. However father doesn’t seem to present, I don’t see a lot of him as I read. Jeanette parents kept her in church, all she knows is church. She doesn’t know anyone else beside her church members. Jeanette also lost her hearing as a young girl. Her mom felt like she was in a state of rapture. The first of the novel is title Genesis. The book of Genesis as we know describes the beginnings of the world, man, and the tribes of Israel. This chapter also shows Jeanette's beginnings, it give us a sense of who Jeanette is and where she stands when it comes to her family, and her family life.

Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit

•     The reason I feel that each chapter is named after the first eight books of the Christian Old Testament is because Jeanette's mother is a very religious person. So maybe it is to show what she learned from each book of the Christian Old Testament during her childhood.
• I feel that humor/ irony is used in this novel just by throwing random things out for example on page 11 when Pastor Finch declares that you can tell a good woman by her sandwiches. I found this funny and odd because I never realized that you can assume the personality or demeanor of a person by their "sandwiches".
• I feel that Jeanette's mother is a very religious person. I feel that the only thing that flows through her mind is religion and the Old Testament.
• I feel that the church community is very open-hearted that they open up for many.
• ...

"Oranges are Not the Only Fruit"

Winterson use a lot of humor in this novel, especially in her descriptions. She talks about her parents beliefs in a sarcastic way. she never mention that she believes in anything. She always talk about her mother's beliefs or someone else. She don't take the Bible stories as seriously as her parents wish she does. Winterson use humor for instance when she draw the picture of Daniel in the lion's den, she draw the lions eating Daniel while she knows he escaped. She quickly turn the meaning saying that the lion are suppose to be Whales like those who swallowed Jonah. She saw the Pastor as a comedian. She payed attention to the way he delivered his speech about the "sevenfold" . The way she tells it the pastor looks like a "crazy guy or a comedian.  

i think the chapters are all named after the first eight books of the Christian Old Testament because Jeannette grew up in a religious family and she seems to knows a lot about the bible and her religion especially at such a young age ( seven) so maybe that's the best way she can explain her story by putting it into parts which having meanings. maybe each part relates to her life.

[25] Starting Oranges are Not the Only Fruit

The reason why I think the chapters are named after the Christian Old Testament, is because it could be that in each novel, the main character, Jennette, could be going through through what the meaning of the word is. For example, the first chapter genesis, we learn that this word is like the origin, the beginning. In the first chapter, we are learning about Jennete's beginning, and who she is. I think for each of the chapters, it will have something to do with the meaning of the word, and it effects the main character.

The humor in the novel i see is, when Jennette says "Its funny what people find for excitement," I think the reason for this she said that was because shes only seven, so shes just  kid like what excitement.

Jeanette's mother seems like a overly religious type of person, and she is trying to push Jeanette into being like her. I find it weird how she quizzes Jeanette on Sunday's about the religion. Like if she doesn't get it right, does that mean shes not fully religious? Because the way I see it, even if someone prays for five mins or five hours, it still prayers, and still being religious, there isn't really a limit to it.

Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit

I think that the chapters have the names of the first 8 books of the Old Testament because it helps explain how focused on religion her life was. Also how her mother sort of forces it on her. It was a bit humorous how Jeannette's mom did not want to go to school because she considered it a breeding ground. Some foreshadowing that i saw was when Jeannette insisted the her mother thought that oranges where the only fruit. I feel that the church community is weird and overbearing.

Why does Jeanette's mother despise sex so much?

Why is she so religious?

Why does she neglect Jeanette sometimes?

Can Elise be considered Jeanette's second mother?

Foreshadowing

The author uses a child's perspective that doesn't really understand everything that goes on so seeing it from their eyes give unexpected responses and reasoning's that are humorous. The pastor made it sound like she was destined to be evil and corrupt so the author expects this character at some point take a dramatic turn in events. Jeanette’s mother is much like the people in the church. Very judgmental when it comes to others and she seems to care a lot about what other people say about her and her family.

Ending of Carpenters Gothic

    I  feel that this story was a very confusing story. There were many parts that i understood but there were parts that I was confused about what was going on. In the end of the story I found out a lot of things the characters were doing. I learned that Liz is sleeping with Mc. Candless, and Paul is having an affair with Liz' bestfriend. Also in the end I learned that Liz dies. I was very confused on how Liz died. The way I look her death was that she was killed. From the story jumping around in so many ways, I never really understood what caused her death. The last sentence of the story has no punctuation mark. The reason I feel that there is no mark is because I feel that Giddus wanted the readers to try and think about what will happen in the future since Liz basically doesnt exist anymore.  I want to know what happens to Mc. Candless since he lost his lover. Also what happens to Paul and Liz' bestfriend. Will Paul ever get karma for any actions he did towards Liz.
 I think I would read this book once more in the future so I can try and analyze each that I did not understand.

¨ Oranges are not the only fruit¨

I do not have much knowledge about the old Christian Testament, but I do believe Winterson named every chapter after them because Jeannette grew up in a very religious family. From what I read so far it seems like all Jeanette knows is RELIGION so using the old Testaments helps her explain her story. Humor is strange but funny to me in this novel. Jeanette seems so confused about how her teachers and classmates consider her an outsider. Jeanette´s life is what normal is in her eyes everyone who doesn't live the way she does are odd. What´s interesting is, a person looking in from the outside would think the opposite, Maybe I see it this way because I´m not such a religious person. My guess about the novel being a coming-out story is during Jeanette´s childhood experiences  she only seen life for how it was presented to her and noting more except her fairy tales, so I can imagine when she experiences life for what it is she  becomes open to try new things... or Jeanette was so used to her mother being in control of her family, she may have lost respect for men. Jeanette´s mother is not the worst kind of mother but she definitely has issues she dealing with that's affecting Jeanette's upbringing, her past life has caused her to depend/ rely so much on the church she doesn't realize how much she neglecting everything/one else. I believe if Jeanette's mother was more open minded she would be a descent mom, shes seems to be very informative and some what encouraging, if she used those skills to help raise Jeanette with an open mind... I believe things would be better for the both of them. The church community seems very controlled. Most, if not all the people who follow the church does it faithfully. Their life revolves around the church. The fairy tales may come from Jeanette not knowing much about anything else other than religion, she begins to imagine another life for herself or someone else.

I'm confused about the friendship between Jeanette and Elsie, she is a older women right? Does Jeanette´s mother know how  close the two of them are?

Carpenter's Gothic Ending

Towards the end, it's clear that Liz is having an affair with McCandles but Liz's death isn't very clear. It isn't described how she's dead in the house but I assume that the reason why is because McCandles realized that Liz has everything that she has and has always rely'd to much on Paul in order to start a new life with him. Though, it isn't explained how it happened but we learn at the end of the story that Paul pretty much used Liz for money and his own benefit and the relationship sadly never had any meaning at all.

"Orange Are Not The only Fruit"

Winterson's novel at first look is easier to read comparatively to "Carpenter's Gothic". I notice that the author has used words like Genesis which is I believe the old testament of the christian Bible and the first book of the Hebrew Bible to talk about Jeanette birth as if she was a special kid. A story that make us think to the one of The Christ. Winterson then use the word exodus the second book of the Torah to talk about the second half of  her childhood by the time she was seven. ( I think she mentioned 7 for a reason but I don't know why yet) Jeanette is leaving in a  family very strict upon religion, especially her mother. She learned to read in the Bible. Jeanette didn't seem to have a lot of distraction in her life. She was not used to have a voice in anything, I think it is the reason why she didn't tell that she had difficulties hearing. The fruit  Orange is present throughout the novel. I think I need to read some more to know exactly why an Orange and not an Apple for instance. 

Questions on Oranges are not the only Fruit

Why is Jeanette's mother so harsh and strict with the religion?

Why does Jeanette's mother neglect her after she loses her hearing?

Does Jeanette really believe the "number seven is evil" conspiracy?

Carpenters Gothic Ending

How did Liz die?
WOW! I think Liz was killed either by Paul. Yes, Paul loved her but I feel he wanted to end her life once that whole affair situation came about. Liz was going to be depressed. Liz is a very complex, dark and depressed character in my eyes. Liz is very unstable and this bad news would probably kill her. So, Paul did it instead.

Ending the book without a period   
I feel that this was done for dramatic affect. Gaddis wants us to make our own prediction of what will happen next. Or maybe give us a clue... Of course Paul gave the same line to Edie that he gave to Liz. Maybe not having a period means his cycle is ever ending. He is going to treat Edie like crap. He is going to act the same way he did with Liz. Paul is going to put Edie down for sure. He isn't the best man to even consider dating. But, Edie deserves it. Why would she have an affair with her friends husband. Maybe that is what the no punctuation is all about.

Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit

What is jeanette mother  like ?
Religion is important to her.Jeanette's  mother adopted jeanette because she wanted her daughter to be a servant of god. she is controlling and very strict, when it come down to religion.

What foreshadowing do we have in these early chapters that this will be coming-out novel?
 In this early chapter the foreshadowing ,when the gypsy woman's comes out from nowhere grabs  jeanette hand and predict that jeanette will not marry.
jeanette also receive a gifts  a Banana bar.


why are the chapters all named after the first eight books of the Christian old testament?
Jeanette grow up in very strict , christian religion, It is named after the old testament because she can express and tell her story. The first chapter the Genesis "creation of the world or the new beginning. she relate her  story to the old testament,

Finishing up Carpenters Gothic

So as i finished Carpenters gothic, i found out that Liz is having sex with McCandles, Paul is having an affair with Liz's best friend, and Liz is found dead in the house. now i have a few questions and i kinda of answered but maybe i am wrong i dont know
1. why is Liz having an affair with McCandles?
2. Did McCandles kill Liz because she refused to leave with him because she was married?
3. what happens to the money now that Liz is dead?

so i kinda of made my own answers to this

1. I feel like Liz is only sleeping with McCandles because she just wants to satisfy her personal woman needs, becuase she is not getting that from Paul. Her relationship with Paul is al negative and all she wanted was to feel like a woman and she never got that with him and so felt that with McCandles but this ties into the next question as to why she doesnt want to leave with him

2. i felt that McCandles was the one to kill Liz because, she didn't want to leave and start a life with him and he got upset and that and so he probably took out his anger by doing something that he regrets

3. the money i felt that Adolph was never really going to give it to them in the first place, yes he gave them little by little but i feel like thats all they were going to get, and now that Liz is dead, he is going to keep all the money

Starting Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit

I think you all will like this novel. It's both lighter and more accessible that Carpenter's Gothic.

Some questions I have:

• Why are the chapters all named after the first eight books of the Christian Old Testament?
• How does Winterson use humor and/or irony in her novel?
• What foreshadowing do we have in these early chapters that this will be a coming-out novel? 
• What is Jeanette's mother like?
• What is this church community like? 
• Why do fairy tales appear in this novel? (like the Leviticus ch. (61-67))

What questions do you have?

So basically this book, Carpenter's Gothic, is written almost completely in dialogue, about the story of Liz, a struggling writer, and her husband Paul, a drunk vietnam vet struggling to set up a buisness as a media consultant. The couple rent a house in the Hudson Valley, from the mysterious McCandless. Paul represents Reverende Ude, a missionary trying to garner support for his cause. However, when a little boy drowns when Ude is baptising him, Paul is face with a great professional challenge. This puts strain on his marriage with Liz, who seeks solace in the arms of their landlord McCandless. As communication between the couple breaks down completely, Liz becomes isolated and desperate. Then she dies at the end very undramatically which then somewhat made the whole story pointless to me. I am definitely looking forward to the next book.

Carpenter´s Gothic ( The End)

The Death of Liz was uninteresting.  The story has always been so very well detailed, I felt like something was missing when Liz died. 

The last sentence in the story was not surprising. Paul statement to Edie clarified what Paul was really all about. Billy was right about Paul from the beginning. The only reason Paul married Liz was for her money and connections. It´s sad that Paul used the same line he used with Liz on Edie. Gaddis made it easy for the readers to dislike Paul.

Gaddis leaving us without a period on the last sentence was strange but could have been done for different reasons. Gaddis may have wanted the readers to create an ending to the story. Paul was the only character to be unsure about. He was such a cunning individual,  you really didn't know his intentions until that last sentence. 

 

[24] End of Carpenters Gothic

Page 252 - 253: How Did Think Liz Died?

Honestly, by the way it looks, Paul could have killed Liz because of finding out about the affair. But then again, it could also, be Liz brother. When you think about it, he was silent throughout most of the novel after the beginning. He was the one who seemed to have a good hate for Paul and showed it. He could have not taken the abuse his sister goes through and killed her, because if he kiled Paul, he would be a prime suspect, for where he kills Liz, Paul looks like the bad guy, and he would both, end his sisters misery while having Paul taking the blame.

Page 262:  Last Line

This last line is basically what a writer likes to do to a reader. Purposely make grammatical errors, and then have us guess why he did it.  Maybe he is actually trying to show in the story how a conversation where both people are talking to each other at the same time makes no sense. But then again, it could also be as simple as the author purposely did this so people could have a few reasons why it is why it is, making the reader think.

[23] The Truth

One thing I think is true, is that Paul is the man he is in the novel because of his background. Maybe he has trust issues because of his army injury, and feels he may never trust anyone. What I do find is a lie is the fact that maybe Paul could have provoked his own injury. From what is shown in the novel, hes a jerk all the time. And he also seems really fake. Like one of those people that claim they do this and that, but really they're just all talk. He could of been an ass during the war, and the solider couldn't take it anymore. I see Paul as both truth and also a lie.  One question I still have is, why not just stop investing, and save some money and just ditch the house and go somewhere else and get away from it all?

Oranges are not the only fruit part 1

My reaction to the beginning of the book "Oranges are not the only fruit" by Jeanette Winterson is that I am very interested in the story and cannot wait to see what happens next. I feel this story is interesting because it is a true story about the author and how she grew up in a very controlling home in which her family was very religious. I was shocked that Jeanette's mother didn't pick up that her daughter had become deaf. To me that shows that the mother is very neglecting of her daughter and doesn't care about her. According to what we discussed on Wednesday, Jeanette is supposed to become a lesbian, but I don't think that I have reached that part yet, since she is still seven and still has a while before she develops sexual feelings. I feel that her family seems to be too much into their religion because they get involved in things they should not be involved in. For example, at one point the Neighbors are fornicating and Mrs. White goes there to make them stop. If I was in their shoes, I wouldn't even care, because it is none of my business after all. I feel that the religion could eventually create a void in their family and tear them apart. I also noticed that all of the stories chapters are named after books in the Bible, what is the significance of that, is it to show that religion dominated her childhood. This is also seen in school when Jeanette goes to school and tells some of the kids that if they are bad, they will go to hell. This shows how controlling her family is and how her religion is dominating her life. One question I still have about the book is why in the Leviticus chapter, the story shifts to this kingdom in which the prince beheads a bunch of people. Is this to show that Jeanette wants to be different than her family?

End of Carpenters Gothic.

How do you think Liz dies? ; page 252-253

Liz is on the phone at the end of this book and she had a conversation that stirred up a certain feeling in her. Even though it was said that she died as a result of a "murder" I can only believe that, that isn't true. Liz had a lot going on and could've possibly died from natural causes? Liz always came off different to me as in she was always nervous and worried and she probably wasn't taking care of herself which resulted in her passing. 

The last line; page 262
The ending line is Paul speaking to Edie who was the person who was on the phone with Liz earlier in the chapter. I believe the last line has no punctuation because if the story continued Paul and Edie's story would have continued just like Liz and Mccandless story. Gaddis kind of left the reader thinking what would happen next if he would have continued with this theory of Paul and Edie.

Closing Up "Carpenter's Gothic"

Pages 252-253: How do you think Liz dies?
Well I can only assume that Liz died of natural causes. The website link that has the annotations Prof. Talbird posted also has characters and details/background info of each character. For Liz, the website says she has high blood pressure and she's asthmatic. In these pages, she just got off the phone with Edie. I think that her conversation with Edie, which contained a lot of excitement, triggered Liz's death. I think she either had a stroke from the result of her high blood pressure or she went into an asthma attack and slowly died from lack of oxygen.



Page 262: The last line has no punctuation mark.. Why do you think this is?
This is clear that Gaddis intentionally meant to do this. The ending line is Paul talking to Edie, as they're leaving together, telling her "I've always been crazy about the back of your neck" & I feel Gaddis left the punctuation period out to purposely show that the story would have continued on for Paul & Edie the same or at least in a similar way to that of Paul and Liz's relationship. Paul's character is stubborn and set in his ways, so we can presume that the cycle will just continue on.

Pages 240-246

We read pages 240-246 in the book in class. I believe this passage between Mccandless and Liz is a very passionate dialogue between the two because they are both upset but you could tell that neither wants to intentionally hurt the other. Liz is talking about Billy's death and how she will never be called Bibbs again since Billy is the only one who calls her that. She also seems to be blaming Mccandless for all the deaths but I'm not sure why. Liz definitely is confused and not sure where her heart is at the moment. At one point Mccandless wants her to leave and "run away" with him and although she says no she doesn't want him to leave and on the other hand when the phone rings she gets anxious because it might be Paul.
The question came up in class about who would Liz leave with if she had the chance. I would love for Liz to just leave on her own. I think that would be the only way Liz would actually be happy. But taking into consideration the type of character Liz is, I believe Liz would stay would Paul because although it is a very stressful situation, it is a situation she is all too comfortable and familiar with. I don't believe she would be happy with Mccandleuss either though because I think the guilt of just leaving Paul would just kill her.
One thing I would like to say though is that I am glad Liz made a voice for herself as the book continued, instead of being the weak, fragile women she appeared to be in the beginning. She is not your average push over. She lets people walk all over her but once she feels passionate about a subject or believes she is being wronged she has no problem speaking up for herself or even trying to make a point. You can see this when she drinks the rest of the liquor when she is with Mccandless. I took this as a sense of power.

Hey all: Here's an essay by novelist Jonathan Franzen about Gaddis if you're interested:

Literature Resource Center - Document - MR. DIFFICULT

Liz's Murderer

I've read a comment or two about Paul possibly being the person who killed Liz. I think Paul might have had something to do with it but he didn't get his hands dirty. I think it might have been Edie who killed Liz but was smart enough to make it seem like an accident. Maybe it was their way of being together and getting rid of Liz?

Ending

Truthfully the book was rather confusing. The dialogue was alright to follow but with so many interruptions at times you could easily confuse who is talking. The main characters; Paul, Liz, McCandless, Bobby, Eddie, Ude all have interesting reasons to be in the story. I know for a fact that Paul is a gold-digger and is looking for anyone to make an easy buck. I believe Paul married Liz for her money but when she couldn't provide him that money after the lawsuits he had an affair. Most likely with her best friend. The last lines are them talking as if they have always been together. Paul's whole relationship and "love" for Liz is a lie. Maybe even his work with the Reverend is a lie.

I'm still confused on McCandless role in the whole story. I can't remember if he explains why his wife leaves him but it still seems fishy that after two years she still hasn't come back for her things. I know for sure that I would be back for my things. Liz, she's the MAIN character and the most complex one. Shes done nothing but lie and be lost, confused puppy who followed Paul around. Liz seemed to always let people trample her and when people like Edie and McCandless speak to her she lies about everything she likes and does.

Why Carpenters Gothic?

I believe that the novel is titled Carpenters Gothic because it adds a darkness affect to the story as well as describes Liz's life. Liz's life is so dark, Gaddis portrays that. Liz is modern but yet has that gothic dark feel to her. She is a very complex character in this very complex story. Liz is almost like an out of place character, she's very different from the other characters in this novel. Liz is unstable, just like the way these gothic houses were made. These houses were made with human error, very experimental to these carpenters.
Maybe this is what this novel was. An experiment for Gaddis, maybe this was written in random. The way his conversations in the story are written, not proper. Very scattered, making it super easy to lose yourself while reading. Maybe thats the reason it was given this title.

The Thruth depends on were are we coming from,. Paul think he is using Ude but Ude is using paul and lester's been using both of them. we have to know people in order to give our trust.

"Carpenter's Gothic"

What is "true" is that the characters were acting a certain way for a specific reason. Some of them had a cover like Mackendless. Some people go to Africa to look for stones& diamond.

The"Truth"

What I believe to be true in this novel is that probably Grimes and the the rest of the estate had something more to do with the hole disaster that has led up to the fiasco in Africa. Meaning that Grimes and the estate were probably working hand in hand and the Reverant Ude was really just using Paul. Paul really thought he was getting something for all this but in the end, I really think he was going to be left to hang and that's what happen with this little scenario paul finds himself in.

What I believe to be false though is that Paul and Reverant Ude really wanted to be part of that war mess that the others were planning to do and draw the line or even such a scenario really existed as McCandless has put it.

Question: Was Paul really blown up by his very own men and for what reason would that really serve?

From what i read so far one thing i think is truth is that Paul is really working hard trying to get Ude on the front cover of the papers. Liz on the other hand believes whatever her husband tells her so it could be wrong that what she thinks is the truth could be false information that her husband is trying to cover up.
What's false is the fact that Paul really believes that he's in control of  Liz fully. like for example when he tells her to do something, she would do it but barely pay attention or care about it. like when shes suppose to answer his phone calls she barely reports back to him whats the calls are about , and that's the only thing she have to do.
( I'm not sure if I'm answering your question correctly. )

the moments in the book that are novelist is when your reading the book regular with just the narrator speaking because it gives you a sense of idea of whats going on n it leads/ direct you in the way it wants you to think while reading the book.

• the parts in the book where you read lines from characters in the books makes it less novelist because it sometimes confuses you and the way its written it looks like a play.

i think this book is called carpenters Gothic because Liz is always in the house, Paul always have her in the house just to answer his phone calls. she have a little idea of the outside life but barely. i think that makes it Gothic like for her to always be locked up in the house.

The Truth

The idea of "truth" w/ quotes--i.e. truth is something that can't be known or my truth is different than your truth--is a quintessential aspect of po-mo literature. I think a key moment when this is explored is in the last scene between Liz and McCandless in the penultimate chapter. Revisit it to get a sense of what the "truth" of this entire novel is. Liz, in fact, sneeringly refers to "your grand words about the truth" to McCandless on p. 240. 

After reading this novel, what is one thing that you think is "true"? What is one thing that you think is false? What is a question that you still have? Be specific. 

Liz&Paul

The way that Liz and Paul treat each other, the person they’re supposed to be in love with, portrays in a way how much value they put in their own self. Paul is frustrated that he has to rely on other people in order to reach the wealth he desires. like the chipped glass that he constantly uses even though he knows theres a chip. He’s so distracted he doesn’t notice until after he has filled the cup. He has this clear goldmine of a plan in his head, but he’s not quick to notice the flaws in them that make each one unsuccessful. Liz fights to have a voice in her marriage and pushes off self desire, things that make her happy. Repeating to Paul about the things he does that bother her, but in a suggestive tone more than stern. She's often helpful to others but cant help herself, shes between putting people before her and putting people above her.

Carpenter's Gothic finale

After finishing the book, I felt that I didn't understand the ending that well. It seemed to me that at the end of the book, Liz was killed by someone in the suburbs, because the newspaper says "Heiress Slain In Swank Suburb". I think that this occurred after she went to visit her brother. I believe that she was killed, because someone had found out about her inheritance and wanted the money for themselves. I also had a feeling that Paul was going to kill someone by the end of the book, because he was always angry and yelled at his wife for no reason. I think that Paul felt devastated after Liz was killed and he blamed himself for her death. Overall I felt that this book would have been easier to understand if it was written like a normal book. I hope that the other two books we read are easier to understand.

Why Carpenter's Gothic?

Based on what we learned in class on the meaning of "Gothic", the title "Carpenter's Gothic" is supposed to represent what is dark and devious in the story. In the story, Liz and Paul are nearly always in an argument and it seems like everyone is isolated in their own way without any happiness or comfort in the story.. Some examples of novelistic moments would be when Gaddis purposely misspells "stayed" and "belie" in order to give a different meaning  to the dialogue. Sometimes it is hard to follow but that is because of another novelistic moment which speeds the dialogue up and is the reason why the story can be complicated.

Why Carpeter's Gothic ?

 I think the author name the book carpeter's Gothic because, it has something to do with the architectural style and design. I remember in the past class we did research about the word gothic. The gothic world is very dark, evil, there fashion/style is all black. the author chose this name because the book is gloomy. It has to do with Paul and Liz relationships, there is no romance or love. All they do is argue and fight. where liz hide her emotion and Paul is evil.

Why Carpenter's Gothic?

I'm not really sure but it could be because the story is gloomy. It doesn't look like Liz and Paul will have a happy ending. The whole story is them falling into worse and worse financial issues. I don't think they ever loved each other but just stayed in hopes of gaining something from the relationship. A Carpenter's Gothic house is ugly to a lot of people and so is the relationship between Paul and Liz. It just grows worse and worse.

carpenter's gothic

• What's going on in this section?
• What is being satirized here?
• How is Paul different when he's speaking to Bobby Joe vs. when he speaks to Liz?
• Why does he always get the cup or glass w/ the chip?
• What is the "page of scribbles" (110)?
• Why does he want Liz to write the letter in the voice of Reverend Ude's "dear Christian mother"? And what is the significance of this plot development?

In this section we have a large chunk of dialogue between Liz and Paul. The two are arguing and not listening to what the other has to say. While Paul is on the phone with Bobby Joe he is more calm and nicer. He insults the kid when he's not on the phone. He helps Bobby Joe spell out certain words and is very slow and careful in speaking with him.

Originally I thought maybe it was because all the cups are chipped. Or being poetic, Paul is breaking apart, imperfect so the chipped cups represent him. After hearing that it might be because he might be missing an arm it makes more sense.

The page of scribbles is the notes Paul keeps for himself in understanding what he's doing. Its got a bunch of arrows and words scratched onto the page making it look like just a page of scribbles.

I believe he wanted Liz to write this letter about Reverend Ude because he would be able to keep eye on what was being said. He is able to make sure that the letter would make Ude look good and twist the words into getting sympathy.

In class questions

What moments are novelistic in carpenters gothic? 

Novelistic is characteristic thats use in the novels. From Carpenter’s Gothic we see how novelistic has been use in the story. For one the tension between Liz and Paul , Paul blames Liz for making them unstable financially,however Paul don't see that he’s also the cast of this . Although Liz is calm about the situation and keep it together Paul on the other hand handle it in rage. He also was selfish about the situation when Liz medical bill came in he yelled at Liz because the bill was around $200 they had enough debt already ,but Paul forgot that his bar visits and motels visits also put them in debt. Throughout the novel we can see how the use of dialogue give a better insight on the characters aspects, the dialogue takes away the voice from the narrators and give the characters a voice ,which also make this novel novelistic.

 Why is this book called carpenters gothic? 

I’m not sure on why the book is called Carpenters Gothic , but it could be referring to Paul and Liz relationship .They have a kinda dark relationship ,theres no romance, They argue more that they enjoy each other company.I also believe their both depress Liz just hides her depression ,while Paul takes his depression out on her or it could be the reason why he really smoke. 

Why Carpenter's Gothic?

              I feel like throughout the entire novel, Carpenter's Gothic held various interpretations on why Gaddis chose to name it the way he did. Before we read the book, I remember when you made us browse the web on the keywords "gothic" and "gothic agriculture", etc. The first search of gothic contained pictures and links that were dark and just very gloomy. I guess in a way, that made us believe that this novel would be something along those lines. As we got further into the book, I think the whole class realized how empty the relationships between the characters seemed. For instance, Liz and her husband, who was very abusive to her Paul; they were just two empty people trying to be full together. For the most part, Liz was the one trying to make it work. We found out eventually how lonely and depressed Liz was with the life she lived. It was just an ongoing theme of depression and pain that I felt for her as I continued to read. It was like Liz was isolated from the world and that's what brought her down. The loneliness and hazy scenes represent the gothic side of the title that Gaddis was trying to portray.

[22] Noveliest & Title Expliantion

When it comes to the noveliest moments in this novel I would say is Paul and Liz, when they are talking. Each time, we see Paul talking to Liz, it just becomes more and more rage and more God dammits are said, and the reason for this is because of the situation they are in financially. We see Paul as a jerk and all but he is trying a bit to dig out of the financial hole they are in, but nothing seems to be going his way, and that's why as they soon reach the limit in debt, tension seems so high.

I think the Novel is called Carpenters Gothic because of the way the story is. Carpenters tend to work hard, which seems like Paul in the story, and Gothic, meaning dark, scary, could be used to represent Paul relationship with Liz, both how he treats her, and talks to her.

Carpenter's Gothic: Novelistic Moments and Why the Name?

Novelistic moments in this book are:

• I think on Page 64: we discover Liz's novel errors. We are able to see that she misspelt the words "stayed" instead of "staid" and "bely" instead of "belie". 
• Page 115-116: we discussed in class how scenes transition very fast from one day to the next. 

Why "Carpenter's Gothic"? 

I agree with everyone's posts about this so far... We learned the variety of definitions of what gothic and what carpenter's gothic means. The definitions revolve around a "dark" kind of energy/look and sometimes romance and death. The story is very dark between the relationships among the characters and the energy is just isolation and cold. 

Carpenterś Gothic

What moments are novelistic in ¨Carpenterś Gothic¨?

A novelistic scene in ¨Carpenterś Gothic" in the beginning of chapter 3 (pg 58) the narrator gives the readers an idea of whats going on in the scene before the dialogue begins. ¨The river lay obscured by mist that had hung heavy since morning, casting the slow climb of the mailman up the black tributary of the road...¨ The scene that Gaddis is creating for me is dark, gloomy, and some what scary. This explains the scene that follows. The first time Liz meets Mister MC Candles. I'm assuming but their relationship was not a fine situation. It was an affair, something hidden in the dark which is somewhat scary. Gaddis connected what we see with the scene/s to come.

Why is the book called Carpenter´s Gothic?

I honestly have know idea. I thought the title of the book was strange after reading a few pages... after looking up each word my guess is Liz and her family all have experience difficult times however because they are the children of a very wealthy man any and everything can always be fixed. This is somewhat the work of a carpenter a person who fix and repair structures. The gothic term makes sense because in the story their are different scene that are gloomy, mysterious, and violent. Put it together and you have ¨Carpenterś Gothic" (I think)

Carpenters Gothic- Questions in Class

what moments are novelistic in carpenters gothic? 

 Paul constantly yells at Liz about how she never listens to him, like when he tries reading to her, or when he asks her why he always gets the broken glass cup. He is trying to get something going but in reality he is not getting anything done, and yells at Liz for not answering the phone. This creates anger, tension, hatred, between the two characters. Liz doesn't know what to do, she lives life with no purpose because she feels she cant leave anywhere. 

Gaddis doesn't write his stories like others, he writes in a way where the more you read the more you understand what the scene is about. He focuses on dialogue that is not how others write. When you read his work, you have to focus on it to know exactly what is going on, who is talking and so this creates a picture in your head of the scene and you have like a mini movie of what is going on. 

Why is this book called carpenters gothic? 

this book could be called Carpenters Gothic because the more you read the story you get a sense of how their house is set up. A dark, gloomy, not so decorated house, that symbolizes houses like carpenters gothic. Carpentens gothic is a style to design homes in a gothic way. Very dark, wooden built, and this could symbolize how Paul and Liz's marriage was dark, and wasnt going anywhere becuase it was a relationship based on "hatred" and command.

Class questions and answers: Carpenters Gothic

what moments are novelistic in carpenters gothic? 
-Paul and Liz are on the verge of bankruptcy. It creates a certain tension amongst these 2 characters. She approaches their relationship with a pathetic, confusing outlook while  Paul drunkenly schemes and rages. 
- Gaddis’s focus on dialogue which also makes this novelistic because it is different from how most writers write their stories. He creates a vision that makes you see the actions in the dialogue so clearly. Gaddis is exceedingly skilled  at revealing character and situation through dialogue. 

Why is this book called carpenters gothic? 
This book could be called carpenters gothic because of how their house is set up? Or maybe because of how their relationship is? Liz and Paul's relationship represents A haunted, isolated and mysterious vibe just like the architecture of a gothic house.

Why Carpenters Gothic?

The book revolves around a depressed state involving a lot of pain and anger. A reason it could be called Carpenters Gothic might be because it has  a dark foundation throughout the book, theres more bad things happening the more you read. Theres no joy in the house Liz and Paul call home, they always argue, theres kids outside playing harsh pranks and damaging properties, and there are animals gouging on other animals. Liz is mostly at home by herself, she cant leave so she just waits around for Paul to come home and when he does, he verbally abuses her and blames her for everything that seems to go wrong in his day....

Carpenter's Gothic Q&A: Pages 101-113.

Some questions:

• Paul is on the phone trying to convince a "grand plan" of his to Bobbie Joe (Reverend Ude's son) regarding how to get his dad a great platform to become noticed and likable. In the end, Paul is just simply being the Paul we are learning to dislike -- selfish and money hungry.
• Paul picks up the phone talking to Bobbie Joe saying how he just had this breakfast meeting with his staff.... LOL yeah big breakfast meeting with himself in his kitchen and his wife he takes advantage of, what a staff. Also how Paul puts a huge weight on Liz to pick up the phone calls all day as he's out on his ass doing what exactly? Making connections, right. 
• In my opinion, as much as Paul has more patience and a less negative tone with Bobbie Joe, Paul speaks to both Bobbie Joe and Liz in a very belittling way. He gets aggravated when he needs to repeat himself to Bobbie Joe for certain spelling errors. And from the beginning of the book, we've learned quickly that he's a rude and arrogant man that takes advantage of Liz's kindness and her money.
• I think Liz purposely gives him the chipped cup even when she doesn't mean to. If Liz can have control over something for a change, might as well give her husband the broken cup with the chip in it and give herself a nice, well put together cup lol :) On a more symbolic side, the chipped cup can represent Paul himself; he isn't perfect and has these faults/chips in himself.
• I'm not sure if the page of scribbles is Liz's novel but I don't think it is.. I think the page of scribbles is Paul's paperwork.. Obviously not important enough to him yet he's constantly saying he's got this big thing in the works going for him and Liz and constantly puts pressure on Liz to answer his "very important" phone calls and be very organized with them.. ironic.
• Paul wants Liz to write the letter as the voice of Reverend Ude's "dear Christian mother" because he knows his tone and mannerisms are very harsh, rude, nasty, and arrogant. He wants Liz's "nurturing" and "sweet" undertone. I'm not sure of what the significance of this plot development is but I can only guess it's a set-up for future arguments that might be bigger and more serious later on in the story.